TESTIMONY OF CHARLES W. GREENER

The testimony of Charles W. Greener was taken at 12:15 p.m., on April 1, 1964, at the Irving Sports Shop, 221 East Irving Boulevard, Irving, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. LIEBELER. I would like to swear you as a witness and she will take this all down. Would you raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. GREENER. I do.

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Mr. LIEBELER. I think that Mr. Sanders' office called you previously and told you that we would be out here?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have advised you that I am an attorney on the staff of the President's Commission. I want to ask you about some of the background concerning the possibility that Lee Oswald or some other Oswald had a rifle in the shop here and had some work done on it? Would you state your name?
Mr. GREENER. Charles W. Greener.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you the owner and operator of the Irving Sports Shop located at 221 East Irving Boulevard in Irving?
Mr. GREENER.. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is Dial D. Ryder one of your employees?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you known Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Approximately 6 years.
Mr. LIEBELER. Has he been employed by you here at the shop practically all that time?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. We have a repair tag that has the number 18374 on it and the name Oswald, indicating some repairs were to be made to a rifle. We will mark this picture as Exhibit No. 1, on your deposition. I show you a picture of this tag and ask you if that is a tag of the type that you use here in this shop?
Mr. GREENER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever seen that tag before?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember the first time that you ever saw it?
Mr. GREENER. Approximately a week or less after the assassination was the first time I had seen it. That was on Thanksgiving Day, I guess, because they called me at home and I was eating and I met some of the news media to go through this Thanksgiving.
Mr. LIEBELER. Had there been anything in the newspaper about this tag, or about Oswald having any work done here before you saw the tag?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; it had come out in the news, and this was Walter Cronkite was to run a retraction on it, or at least clarify the thing.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of retraction?
Mr. GREENER. Well, they tried to clarify the thing to say that we had a tag showing a certain amount of work for an Oswald, but as far as relating to that particular gun or that particular man, we had no real knowledge of the thing.
Mr. LIEBELER. Had the FBI been out there at the shop before this thing came out in the newspaper?
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't think so. They came out after all the news stories.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did the newspaper get hold of this, do you know?
Mr. GREENER. I couldn't tell you that.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are pretty clear that it was in the press before the FBI ever talked to you?
Mr. GREENER. I am pretty sure it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know whether the FBI could have talked to Ryder or anybody else at the shop?
Mr. GREENER. That I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are the owner of the shop, are you not?
Mr. GREENER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you here at the shop during the period after the assassination and prior to the time that the FBI came here for the first time?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. If the FBI had come here to talk to anybody about Oswald having been here, they would probably have talked to you, isn't that right?
Mr. GREENER. It is possible. Now I do know that one newsman came in and he wasn't going to consult me in any way, so I don't know whether it would have been the case with the FBI or not.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did the newsman come in?

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Mr. GREENER. That was on a--I believe that was on a Monday--following Monday, as I remember it.
No; wait a minute. No; it wasn't a Monday. That holiday, it's got me mixed up. It must have been on a Friday after the Thanksgiving holiday.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was after the story had already been out in the newspaper, is that right?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. This reporter came in and wanted to talk to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Right. The paper stated the owner of the Irving Sports Shop, and he apparently figured that was the correct information.
Of course, all the newspapers, they didn't check out any stories; they just run to their office and sent it in, as you well know. No one checked out anything. Anything they could get hold of, they put in print, and some of the information they got a hold, I don't know where it came from.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any reason to believe that any reporter talked to Ryder prior to the time the FBI came to your shop?
Mr. GREENER. One told me he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember that reporter's name?
Mr. GREENER. No; he was with the Times Herald.
Mr. LIEBELER. Dallas Times Herald?
Mr. GREENER. I couldn't swear.
Mr. LIEBELER. He told you he talked to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Ryder told me he hadn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Ryder told you the reporter had not talked to him?
Mr. GREENER. Had not talked to him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the reporter tell you when he had talked to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. He told me that he talked to him earlier in the morning. I don't know when that was. I am inclined to believe, to the best of my knowledge, it was Thanksgiving Day. Now I could be wrong on that. My recollection is that this story first came out--I am thinking it came out on Thanksgiving Day.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have here a clipping from the New York Times of November 29, 1963, which appears to be one of the first times that this story was released in the New York papers at any rate, November 29, 1963. Mr. GREENER. What was Thanksgiving Day?
Mr. LIEBELER. Thanksgiving Day was on a Thursday, was it not?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. That would have been November 28, so that the 29th would have been the day that it came out in the New York papers, and it very likely could have come out in the Dallas paper on Thanksgiving Day.
Mr. GREENER. I think it was Thanksgiving Day when it came out in the paper, because I hadn't heard anything of it, and I remember we were playing dominoes when the paper came, and we quit and read the paper, and then also they had come by to check on this story, and we came up to the shop and went through that for Walter Cronkite's program.
Mr. LIEBELER. The reporter had come out to check out the story?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let the record show that the newspaper clipping that I previously referred to is from the New York Times of November 29, 1963, and the story is entitled, "Gunsmith Attached Sight for Man Named Oswald," and it is a story written by Mr. John Herbers, and it has been marked as Exhibit No. 2, on Mr. Greener's deposition.
Now do you have a feeling or do you have the thought based on what this reporter from the Dallas News told you that the reporter had talked to Ryder prior to the time that the FBI ever came here to the shop?
Mr. GREENER. You are going to have to go through that again. I am not Sure that I was following you all the way. I was thinking a little bit while you were talking.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am trying to find out at what time this story first broke, whether the FBI had been here at the shop to ask any questions before the story came out in the newspapers?

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Mr. GREENER. As I recall, no. None of the law enforcing agencies had been by previous to that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your impression is that he came here because they saw the story in the paper?
Mr. GREENER. That is my idea. Either that, or they were informed by the news reporters.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now did this reporter from the Dallas paper, whose name you don't remember, tell you that Ryder had called him?
Mr. GREENER. No; he told me that he called him, called Ryder.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you how he got the idea to call Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you didn't ask him?
Mr. GREENER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss this question with Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; I did. And he said he had not talked to a newspaper reporter about it.
Mr. LIEBELER. At all?
Mr. GREENER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you never had any opportunity or occasion to ask Ryder whether a reporter or, or whether Ryder contacted a reporter, because he simply denied talking to a reporter?
Mr. GREENER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember when you asked Ryder about this?
Mr. GREENER. Must have been on Friday, because I was a little bit aggravated at the whole setup. They got me out of bed a time or two at night, and I believe that I had called the Times Herald to talk to this reporter to see where he was supposed to have been getting his information. I'm sure that after I talked to them that day was when I questioned Ryder. So I feel pretty sure it was Friday or Saturday.
Mr. LIEBELER. The 29th or 30th of November?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Ryder ever indicate to you that he had talked to a newspaper reporter about this?
Mr. GREENER. No; he did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any recollection at all of the name of this reporter from the Dallas newspaper?
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't have the slightest idea about talking with reporters until this bunch that was going to run the program on Walter Cronkite's program had contacted me, and he called me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember his name?
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't remember any of the boys with the television program at all. They had called me and wanted to come down and take some pictures, and he called me, Ryder did.
Mr. LIEBELER. The television men had called Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. That was after the newspaper article had appeared in the newspapers.
Mr. LIEBELER. And Ryder called you and talked to you about it, whether 'these men could come down?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; and I came down and met with them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what Ryder told them?
Mr. GREENER. To the best of my knowledge, he told them that we had the ticket, but he didn't remember the name, didn't remember the gun, or the person, because actually here is the thing about this tag here. We have tried to keep a little better record. We get busy, you know, and get a little lax, just like you and everybody else does, and if we got two or three waiting, why, at that time we were not going to dally about what the name is or date or address or telephone number or anything. We felt like we didn't have time.
Mr. LIEBELER. This was just before the deer season?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; I guess the deer season opened November 16 in Texas, and our workload was pretty heavy, and we were working short handed, too, which would be one reason for no more information on the tag or several other tags.

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Mr. LIEBELER. Can you fix the date?
Mr. GREENER. No; no way in the world. In the first place, I wasn't here. I feel sure I wasn't here at the time this went on. I was gone from--I don't remember what day I left. I started hunting in South Dakota on November 2, and we came back somewhere between the 12th and 14th.
Mr. LIEBELER. What makes you feel that you weren't here at the time this tag was made up?
Mr. GREENER. Well, in checking around, I feel like possibly that I would have noticed it on the gunrack. I would--I don't know whether I would or not, because I do some of the repair work myself, and a lot of times I go through the guns on the rack to be repaired, and if it is something I can do, I take care of it. If he is busy, then I take care of it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Ryder, you mean?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you have no recollection of this tag?
Mr. GREENER. None whatsoever, until, I believe, it was the day on Thanksgiving when they came down here. Now, I believe this has been a long time and we are going into phases of this I hadn't thought of in a long time it seems to me that the FBI got ahold of him and they come down scouring through the place. That was very possible after the newspaper report broke. It could have been before, but it seems to me that that is when the tag appeared. I believe it was an FBI man who was out here checking.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, now, if that is true, then the tag would have had to have been found and the FBI man would have had to have been here before the story broke in the newspaper?
Mr. GREENER. No; I said it could possibly be after the newspaper story appeared, but I believe when the tag was found lying on the desk somewhere, that the FBI man was here when it was found.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is the best recollection that you have?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; right now.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who found the tag; do you remember?
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't know. If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, because like I said, you are going into things that hadn't entered my mind since November 22, along in there, and it seems to me that he had contacted Ryder and they had come down here.
Mr. LIEBELER. The FBI?
Mr. GREENER Yes, and they found the tag on the workbench somewhere.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your impression now is that the FBI man was here when the tag was found?
Mr. GREENER. That is my impression; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. As we discussed briefly off the record before we started, it appears that there are three possibilities concerning this tag. One, in view of the fact that Mr. Ryder is quite clear in his own mind that he never worked on an Italian rifle similar to the one that was found in the Texas School Book Depository, we can conclude either that the Oswald on the tag was Lee Oswald and he brought a different rifle in here, or it was a different Oswald who brought another rifle in here, or that the tag is not a genuine tag, and that there never was a man who came in here with any gun at all. Can you think of any other possibilities?
Mr. GREENER. That about covers the situation, it looks to me like.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any opinion as to what the real situation is?
Mr. GREENER. Nothing more than I have confidence in the boy, or I wouldn't have him working for me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't think he would make this tag up to cause a lot of commotion?
Mr. GREENER. I don't think so. He doesn't seem like that type boy. I have lots of confidence in him or I wouldn't have him working for me and handling money. Especially times I am going off. He if he wasn't the right kind of boy, and he pretty well proved he is by dependability and in all the relations that we have together, and I just don't figure that is possible. Now I say I don't figure that. Of course, there is always possibilities of everything, but I don't feel that way.

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Mr. LIEBELER. You don't feel Ryder would do that?
Mr. GREENER. Not at all; no.
Mr. LIEBELER. When we look at this tag, it appears in the photograph that it is in two parts. There is a top part entitled "Repair Tag," on which writing pears, reading "Oswald, drill and tap, $4.50. Boresight, $1.50." Or a total of $6. And it appears at the lower part of the tag; it is in the form of a claim check; isn't that correct?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. The tag number, as I have indicated, is 18374. Would I be correct in assuming that if this tag had been made up when a customer came in and left their rifle, that the part of the tag entitled "Claim Check" would ordinarily have been torn off and given to the customer?
Mr. GREENER. No; you are wrong in assuming that. Because I believe 19 out of 20 would not ask for a claim check. In the first place, 18 out of that 20 would lose the claim check before they got back, so if you are going to give them a claim check and stick to the thing, not letting them have the merchandise if they don't have the claim check--
Mr. LIEBELER. You are running into a lot of trouble from a business point of view?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; when they come back for the merchandise, I ask them what the name is, and if we have a gun to go by the name--
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you ordinarily tear off the claim check?
Mr. GREENER. No. If you look at the rack, you won't find one on the whole rack that has a claim check that has been torn off.
Mr. LIEBELER. There isn't any way you can tell from the number when the check was issued?
Mr. GREENER. No, because we got the tags dumped into a box, and we reach in and get a tag and tie it onto the merchandise and fill it out.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to show you some pictures that have previously been marked in another part of these proceedings as Commission Exhibits Nos. 451, 453, 454, 455, and 456, and ask you if you recall ever seeing the person or persons depicted in these pictures?
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't believe I could identify him as ever having any dealings. Now there is a familiarity there, but I couldn't tie it with anything or anybody.
Mr. LIEBELER. You couldn't figure out in your mind why you think there is a familiarity to those pictures?
Mr. GREENER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Had you ever seen those pictures before?
Mr. GREENER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Has the FBI or Dallas Police Department ever shown you pictures and asked you to identify them?
Mr. GREENER. No; they haven't shown me pictures of anyone for identification.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to show you another picture which is a photograph that has been marked Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B, a photograph of an individual on a street, and one of them has been indicated by a green mark on the picture, and ask you to examine that picture and tell me if you have ever seen that man before?
Mr. GREENER. Not that I can recall now.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you another photograph of a street scene which has been marked Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-A, and ask you if you recognize any of the people in that photograph? Two of them have been marked with a green marker, but don't confine your attention entirely to those two individuals. Tell me if you recognize any of the people in that picture?
Mr. GREENER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Particularly I call your attention to the man who was standing immediately to the left of the man who is marked with the "X," rather than the line, not immediately to the left of him, then, but the second man to the left. He is standing there with a tie and he has some papers in his hand. Does he look familiar to you at all?
Mr. GREENER. No.

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Mr. LIEBELER. I show you another picture that has been marked Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C, and ask you if you can recall ever having seen that man?
Mr. GREENER. I don't recall.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recognize that man in the picture?
Mr. GREENER. According to the other pictures in the paper, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who does it look like to you?
Mr. GREENER. It looks like Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you don't ever remember having seen him?
Mr. GREENER. No; my mental pictures are not hardly as good as it used to be. You take fooling with people day in and day out, without some reason to recognize them, the next time you see them--there is a reason for it, you don't make a mental picture of every person that comes in. If he was 6'6" and weighed 300 pounds, or gave you some trouble when he comes for his merchandise, then it is likely you would remember, but a guy just comes in and tells you what he wants done, and comes back, and gets his merchandise and doesn't give you any trouble, then you don't remember. Usually I never forget a face. Now, the first picture you showed me, there was something there, but I couldn't pin it to anything, though.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am marking two photographs of a rifle as Exhibits Nos. 3 and 4, on the deposition of Mr. Greener. I have initialed both photographs for the purpose of identification, and I would like to have you initial them, too, so we don't get confused as to which picture we are looking at.
Mr. GREENER. Both of them?
Mr. LIEBELER. Both of them, please. These are pictures of a rifle. I would like to have you examine it and tell me whether you have ever seen that rifle or one similar to it.
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't remember this rifle at all. The first Italian rifle that I remember seeing was in Worland, Wyo. A friend pulled his out, and that is the first Italian rifle that I ever recall having seen.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was that subsequent to the assassination?
Mr. GREENER. That was while we were on the trip.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember ever having seen a rifle like this in the shop here?
Mr. GREENER. No; I sure don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have taken the first two exhibits and marked them Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2, on your deposition, and I have initialed both of them and I would like to have you initial them also for the purpose of identification.
Mr. GREENER. [Initials.]
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you made any attempt on your own part to try to figure out how this tag came to be in your shop?
Mr. GREENER. No; really I haven't inquired any at all on that. I inquired about the reporter deal, but I didn't inquire into anything at all about the tag, because I just assumed it was all open and above board and didn't go into it at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now we have talked previously about the three possibilities that could possibly explain this tag, and you have told us that you don't think that Ryder is the kind of guy who would write the tag up after the fact just to cause a commotion.
There are two other possibilities. One, was that Lee Oswald had a different rifle in here. And the other is that there is a different Oswald involved. Do you have any opinion as to which of those possibilities might be correct?
Mr. GREENER. No; it would just be a---
Mr. LIEBELER. Wild speculation?
Mr. GREENER. Very wild. Very wild speculation.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you told me before that you had been interviewed several times by the FBI and by the Dallas police force. Can you think of any questions that they asked you or things they discussed with you that we haven't covered here?
Mr. GREENER. No; I can't. It seems that we have gone into it far deeper than they ever did, the Dallas police or the FBI.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you think of anything else that I should have asked you or that you can add that would help clear this situation up?

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Mr. GREENER. No; sure can't.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have no further questions at this point, Mr. Greener. If you can't think of anything else that you think is appropriate to add to the record, I think we will terminate the deposition at this point. I want to thank you very much for the time you have given and the cooperation you have shown. I know you have been talked to about this a lot of times. I appreciate the cooperation you have shown the Commission, and I thank you very much.
Mr. GREENER. We have tried to cooperate with them all the way through. When they continued to come back and ask the same questions and get me out of bed and all at 11 or 12 o'clock at night and get a tag they had looked at three or four times, I began to get a little bit aggravated.
Mr. Ryder and I have always been interested in helping them in any way we could with any information we could give. I don't feel that he is the type boy to do that. Of course, that again is people are involved.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, you have known the boy a long time and you should be in a position to make that kind of judgment?
Mr. GREENER. That is what he is. He has been a mighty fine boy and he is just an extraordinary boy. There is not many like him, and I would trust him with anything that I have to be done, and it just never struck me as him being that kind of boy.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me ask you a couple of other questions about rifles and sights. I know you do have a meeting at 12:30.
Mr. GREENER No; it was 12.
Mr. LIEBELER. I thought it was 12:30. I am sorry you are not going to make the meeting. You may have read in the newspapers that Oswald purchased this Italian rifle, or was supposed to have purchased it from a mail-order house in Chicago, with the telescopic sight mounted on the rifle at that time?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. In your opinion, based on your experience in this field, do you think that a rifle that had been purchased from a mail-order house that is shipped through the mails with a scope mounted on it would be in a condition to fire accurately at that point without any further sighting in of the rifle by firing it?
Mr. GREENER. The possibility of it being, especially with this frail mount is, I am sure that that mount, according to what little information I have, the possibility of it being real accurate would be pretty small, I think.
I think the gun would be I think even a fellow that was going to go deer hunting would want to take the gun out and shoot it before he went hunting, and I think that holds very true with this case, regardless of whether we mounted the scope or who mounted it or it come mounted. I think the man would fire it before using it.
Mr. LIEBELER. You feel that because you don't think that a rifle would be able to be fired accurately unless it had been sighted?
Mr. GREENER. The possibility would be small that it would be real accurate; and you talk to most any of the fellows that go hunting, regardless of how expensive a mount they may have on the gun, he is going to take it and fire it before he goes hunting. That holds true in 99 percent of the cases.
The only reason not to would be the fact the man was in a real big hurry, he picked it up late in the afternoon and he was going to Colorado and was getting there after the season and he was going to shoot and just take his chances. Otherwise, he would take the gun out and fire it, 99 out of 100, and fire it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would that be true even if it had been boresighted?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; because actually the boresighting with the tools that we use, the accuracy of the thing on the windage part of it is very accurate, but as far as distance, different guns will travel a flatter trajectory than other guns will, and there is no calibration on the sighting tools that tell us that you can sight the gun in on target, that it is on 60 or 140 or 270 or 308. There is no calibration for that.
Mr. LIEBELER. No calibration for the boresighting machine?
Mr. GREENER. No; you have the crosshairs and you line the two of them up, and that is approximately 100 or 125 yards range, but different guns will vary as to the trajectory, and one might hit the target and one be a little high and

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another a little low, so that is the reason the man takes his gun and shoots it in as far as the elevation is concerned. He can zero it in to what distance he wants to shoot it at.
Mr. LIEBELER. That would have to be done, as you have indicated, even if the rifle had been boresighted?
Mr. GREENER. That's right. It would be accurate as far as elevation. The windage part is usually right on target, but the elevation has to do with caliber.
As far as your 6.5 Italian gun is concerned, there is only two types. One is the hand load, and one is the military ammunition. Because there is none of the major ammunition manufacturers that builds a sporting load for that gun, so it either has to be a hand load or old Italian or military ammunition, and the hand load has to do with what size bullet and the power you get, and it would be more important on that gun to shoot it than it would any other caliber or of an American make that you get your larger manufacturers of ammunition loading for.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any 6.5 ammunition in your shop?
Mr. GREENER. Not 6.5 Italian.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever had?
Mr. GREENER. We have a 6.5 Swedish and 6.5 Jap, and I believe that is all of these 6.5's.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you do reloading of casings?
Mr. GREENER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. The fellow has to do that himself?
Mr. GREENER. We sell the components and the loading equipment but we don't do any loading. The only one that I have been able to find out so far that hand loads 6.5 Italian--I don't think this is a possibility, but Ray Acker with Bell Telephone is the only one I know that does any hand loading on 6.5 Italians.
Mr. LIEBELER. He works for Bell Telephone Co.?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. He does this as a part-time occupation?
Mr. GREENER. Hobby; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you talked to him about this case at all?
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't guess I have ever called him. How I came to know that he reloads, and I don't know to what extent that he reloads, but 1 called one of my suppliers as to the availability of 6.5 Italian, and he gave me his name, so that is the reason but I can't say, but as far as I know, he is the only one that loads 6.5. There may be others that buy their own dies and hand loading, more especially since there are more guns coming out, but that would be, oh, a year and a haft ago when I was told that he hand loaded 6.5 Italians.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you need a particular kind of equipment to reload shells?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Very definitely.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does the equipment vary with the caliber of the shell?
Mr. GREENER. Very definitely. The presses usually will accept all the different calibers, and then you have to have your die sets.
Mr. LIEBELER. To pour it?
Mr. GREENER. You've got to have your shell holders, and your die holder that resizes the brass and inserts the bullet into it, the bullet seating and there is only one caliber that one set of dies will load. If you load a 6.5 die, you have to have 6.5 dies. If you load .30-06, you have to have .30-06, and you can't have any part of the two on the different calibers of ammunition.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, thank you again, and we appreciate your cooperation.