TESTIMONY OF ROY E. STANDIFER

The testimony of Roy E. Standifer was taken at 10:45 a.m., on July 14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Sam Kelley, assistant attorney general of Texas, was present.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Detective Roy E. Standifer. Mr. Standifer, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel of the President's Commission.
Under the provisions of Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and the joint resolution of Congress, No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the President's Commission in Conformance with that Executive order and the Joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you.

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I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relevant to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular as to you, Mr. Standifer, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry.
Mr. Standifer, I think you appeared today by virtue of a general request made to Chief Curry by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, general counsel on the staff of the President's Commission, in which he requested that certain members of the police department appear to have their deposition taken.
Under the rules adopted by the Commission, every witness has a right to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of his deposition, which in this case has not occurred.
But the rules also provide that a witness may waive that 3-day notice and testify without it.
Therefore I ask you if you are willing to waive notice and testify now?
Mr. STANDIFER. I will.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand and I will administer the oath? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. STANDIFER. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. State your full name.
Mr. STANDIFER. Roy E. Standifer.
Mr. HUBERT. And your address?
Mr. STANDIFFR. 550 Wildrose Drive, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation, sir?
Mr. STANDIFER. Detective, police department, city of Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so occupied?
Mr. STANDIFER. Little better than 19 years.
Mr. HUBERT. How old are you ?
Mr. STANDIFER. Forty-four.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your occupation, before that?
Mr. STANDIFER. Oh, they have been numerous. I was a construction foreman for a fence company for 5 years. Owned a cafe at one time. Aircraft worker shortly before the war or during the war.
Mr. HUBERT. I take it that most of your adult life has been in the police department?
Mr. STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. I show you a document consisting of two pages, although the second page is only about a quarter of it occupied with any typing, which purports to be a report of an interview of you by FBI Agent Paul L. Scott, taken on January 13, 1964.
For the purpose of identification, I have marked that document as follows: On the first page in the right-hand margin I have put the following words, "Dallas, Texas, July 14, 1964, Exhibit No. 1, Deposition of Roy E. Standifer," under which I have signed my name.
And on the second page I have placed my initials in the lower right-hand corner.
I think you have had an opportunity a moment ago to read this exhibit, have you not?
Mr. STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. Which exhibit contains, so far as you know, a correct statement and account of the interview to which it refers?
Mr. STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. I take it also that the statements made therein by you as recalled by the FBI agent are correct?
Mr. STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand that you did know Jack Ruby?
Mr. STANDIFER. I did know Jack Ruby; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. For approximately 13 years?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How well did you know him?

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Mr. STANDIFER. Not too well, really. Only on a professional matter or business dealings. I never was in his place of business socially. I don't drink, I don't dance, and I don't have any business around his place.
Mr. HUBERT. About how many times during the past 13 years do you suppose you met Ruby ?
Mr. STANDIFER. I recall twice in his place of business. Once in the Silver Spur on South Ervay, and once at the Vegas Club on Oaklawn, and maybe 3 or 4 times at the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. The two times that you saw him at the club would have been some years ago?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you fix any point of time for the three or four times that you saw him at the city hall?
Mr. STANDIFER. The only time that I remember was on the night that the President had been killed. I believe that was on a Friday, was it not?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes, sir; the 22d. But you say you did see him at the city hall two or three times other than on that occasion?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, but I have no idea on what dates. He comes down quite often, I understand, visiting officers, and I have seen him just to speak to him or wave at him.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you undertake an estimate of the time you saw him last prior to November 22?
Mr. STANDIFER. I have no idea.
Mr. HUBERT. Would it be more than a year?
Mr. STANDIFER. More than a year. I would say 3 or 4 years.
Mr. HUBERT. You state in the document identified as Exhibit No. I that Ruby was well known among the police officers.
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, that is true.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you elaborate on that as to how you know that to be a fact?
Mr. STANDIFER. By hearing the officers in my division talk, that they had talked to him, and on one occasion prior to the assassination of President Kennedy he was interested in installing a safe, and he had talked to one or two of the officers in our bureau who are familiar with the installation or placement of safes.
He called our office. I am the desk officer. I answered the phone most often. He talked to me asking if I could send a detective to him to show him what would be the best location to install this safe.
Mr. HUBERT. When was that telephone conversation?
Mr. STANDIFER. Oh, that was probably a month before the assassination. I am not real clear on that. I believe he asked for Detective Joe Cody by name, as Joe is familiar with safes.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you tell Ruby ?
Mr. STANDIFER. I told him him I would try to locate Joe, or would give him a message that he wanted to talk to him about that safe.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you do so?
Mr. STANDIFER. I wrote a note on an office memo and put in each detective's box when something comes in like that, and I am sure I wrote a note.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember whether Cody contacted him ?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us what opinion, generally, the members of the police department had of Ruby?
Mr. STANDIFER. Oh, I think maybe they was friendly toward him and they would visit him down to his place for a drink, I understand.
Maybe they would go down there and drink with him occasionally. I don't know. I have never been there with any of them, and I don't know that to be a fact. In all probability, that is what would take place.
Mr. HUBERT. Now I understand you did see him on the third floor of the Dallas Police Department on the night of November 22, 1963?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Any question about your recognition of him?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, Sir.

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Mr. HUBERT. Did you speak to him?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say, and what did you say?
Mr. STANDIFER. I just spoke to him and said, "Hi, Jack," and he said, "Hi, Sandy."
A lot of times he called me Sandy. I guess it is short for Standifer, I don't know.
There were three or four other detectives around the door. We had our door blocked off to keep the press from using our phones. We had another detective stationed at the door to keep them out, and he knew Ruby and they were talking, of course, and all the noise, and I don't have any idea what they said. I didn't solicit conversation.
Mr. HUBERT. But so far as your conversation with him was concerned, it was just an exchange of greetings?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Does anybody else call you Sandy?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what officer it was he seemed to be engaged in conversation with ?
Mr. STANDIFER. Lieutenant Leonard, and Detective Cal Jones.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you observe him speaking to those gentlemen?
Mr. STANDIFER. No more than 2 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that on the same occasion that you greeted him?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, simultaneously.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you fix the time of your seeing him ?
Mr. STANDIFER. Roughly, 7:30 or 8 o'clock.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you fix it? Because it would be helpful for us to have in the record what that estimate is based on.
Mr. STANDIFER. I know that it was after dark, and I believe along about then darkness set in about 6 or 6:30 that time of year, and I know it was possibly an hour after dark.
Mr. HUBERT. What time had you come on duty?
Mr. STANDIFER. 2:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember what time you had supper that night?
Mr. STANDIFER. 6:30.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you fix that?
Mr. STANDIFER. I always eat at 6:30. I bring my sack and I eat right in my own office. I never leave the office.
Mr. HUBERT. It is a rather fixed habit that you do eat at 6:30?
Mr. STANDIFER. Fixed habit. You could set your clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you willing to state that you did eat this day at 6:30?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long after you had eaten did you see Ruby?
Mr. STANDIFER. Probably thirty minutes after I came back to my desk I noticed that there was someone standing at the door there, several persons backed up against it, and in our office I was just milling back and forth from my desk to the door.
Mr. HUBERT. And it is that time that you saw Ruby?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. This is on Friday, November 22?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All this was on the third floor, as a matter of fact, just outside your office, which is the burglary and theft division?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that office near Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. STANDIFER. Directly across the hall.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see Ruby near or by Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir. Where he went when he left, I have no idea.
Mr. HUBERT. And you did not see him again that day?
Mr. STANDIFER, No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you seen him prior to that time on that day?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.

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Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him on either the 23d or the 24th at any time, of November ?
Mr. STANDIFER. I saw his derby hat on the 24th on television. I was watching television when it occurred.
Mr. HUBERT. But I take it from that, you were not on duty on the 24th?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you on duty on the 23d?
Mr. STANDIFER. That Saturday; no, sir. I am off Saturday and Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. How was he dressed when you saw him?
Mr. STANDIFER. The only thing I could remember, and I am vague about that, I believe he had on a white shirt. He was sleeveless, I believe. I don't believe he even had on a coat. I am not sure. That is how little attention I paid to him.
Mr. HUBERT. But you have no doubt in your mind it was Jack Ruby?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you address him first, or he address you first?
Mr. STANDIFER. I don't remember, I sure don't.
Mr. HUBERT. But you in any case used the words, "Hi, Jack" ?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him do anything else or say anything else? You have already covered the conversation with the two officers ?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him passing out any cards to anyone?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you wonder why he was there?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir; it never entered my mind. I figured he was curious like most other people.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you aware of an identification system that was being used to preclude people from coming to the third floor other than authorized news media?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir; I had no enforcement on that end of it.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I wasn't speaking so much of enforcement, but as to whether or not you knew that only police personnel and news media were supposed to be up there, if that is the case?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't know about it?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir; I know that the hall was so congested with news media and cameras and recording equipment that I had to send three detectives to the basement to work out our official police business from the jail office rather than the routine coming and going of prisoners and people who wished to come into our office to make a complaint. It was impossible for them to get through.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you observe any identification system being used by the elevators or other means of entry to the third floor of checking?
Mr. STANDIFER. All I know is I had occasion to make one or two trips down to the jail office or to the records bureau, and when I would come back off of the elevator, there would be a reserve officer, I believe, and a uniformed officer.
Of course when the door would open from the elevator, they would be standing there, and they would just give me a casual glance. I knew that they recognized me right off, but I was never challenged or anyone around me was never challenged.
Mr. HUBERT. But you knew that they were there for a purpose?
Mr. STANDIFER. Now whether they were keeping unauthorized personnel out, I don't know. It was never mentioned to me.
Mr. HUBERT. Now this checking situation at the elevator that you just men- tioned was on Friday, November the 22d?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you go off duty that day?
Mr. STANDIFER. They kept us over an hour. I went off at 12. We are originally due off at 11 p.m., but our captain asked everybody on duty that night to stay an extra hour to see if we could assist anyone. We stayed until 12.

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Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion to go to the assembly room when Oswald was brought in front of the press?
Mr. STANDIFER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir, do you have anything else you wish to say?
Mr. STANDIFER. One thing I might add that wasn't in that interview by Mr. Scott. Maybe it was 5:30 or 6 o'clock, Charlie Brown, the FBI agent, brought Mama Oswald and a young fellow who was identified to me as Oswald's brother, into our office and asked if they could be put into an interrogation room where it was private, and I told him "Yes," and we showed him the room that he could put them in.
And he asked me if I would get them some coffee. The coffee canteen is just down the hall a little, bit from Captain Fritz' office. I went to the canteen and brought him and her both back a cup of coffee.
The young fellow said, "You are most kind." And that is the only conversation we had.
Mr. HUBERT. They made no further comments to you at all except to thank you, as it were, for bringing the coffee?
Mr. STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir. Now I don't think there has been any conversation between us this morning or at anytime for that matter, which has not been made a part of this deposition by the reporter; is that correct?
Mr. STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, thank you very much.
Mr. STANDIFER. That is all right. I am happy to help. If I can help you further, call me.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask just one more question. I think, Mr. Standifer, you said that you are most certain about the time that you saw Ruby, because you related it to the time of having your supper, which you said you had in your office and that it is your custom to do so?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you also used a phrase that that custom is so well established that people could set their clocks by it; is that correct?
Mr. STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. That has been your habit for quite a number of years?
Mr..STANDIFER. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. And has always been at 6:30?
Mr. STANDIFER. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you saw Ruby about a half hour after beginning to eat your supper?
Mr. STANDIFER. Approximately; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir.